From: dank@metrics.com (Dan King) Subject: <<BUY/SELL: TRANSACTIONS ON USENET--FAQ!>> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 05:55:33 GMT Archive-name: misc-forsale-faq/buying-selling Posting-Frequency: every 5 days Last-modified: 1995/30/01 Version: 4.01a Major-Changes: Split ad posting and transaction FAQs, digestify. Modify autoposter, minimize bandwidth. How to Conduct Transactions on the Usenet Marketplace Options and Frequently Asked Questions maintained by Daniel King (kingd@expert.cc.purdue.edu) Suggestions/comments/flames always welcome! ----------------------------------------------------------- Volume I. Contents--Posting Ads on Usenet 1. Welcome to the Usenet Marketplace! 2. Purpose of the Usenet Marketplace. 3. What is appropriate to post, what isn't? 4. Which group should I post to? 5. How do you write an effective ad for Usenet? 6. Consideration for commercial/entrepreneurial ads. Volume II. Contents--Buy/Sell: Transactions on Usenet 7. I'm looking for a ... Where can I find it? 8. How to consummate Usenet transactions. 9. Other sources of classified ads via Internet. 10. Additional International considerations. 11. Glossary of misc.forsale.* terms ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ ~Subject: 7. I'm looking for a [insert item here].... So, now you're on the other end of the buying and selling spectrum--and you're looking for something specific. Where do you find it? Right here! Between commercial ads in the biz.marketplace groups and individual ads in the misc.forsale groups, you should be able to find just about anything, if you're patient. Just follow the appropriate groups for a little while. If you need it right now, remember that Wanted: ads are permitted under the same conditions as For Sale ads. See the first volume of the FAQ on posting ads for more information. ------------------------------ ~Subject: 8. How to consummate Usenet transactions. Now on to the nitty gritty. You've found someone who is offering what you're looking for, or who wants to buy what you're selling. However, she's halfway across the country, or world. How can the exchange of goods for cash be conducted safely and honestly? In today's fear of mail fraud and other problems, this worry plagues many people on Usenet. However, transactions over the Usenet are almost always successful--when you follow a few recommendations. When it comes to exchanging money for an item, the following methods have been found to work best: Method 1: COD -- Recommended for any transaction Federal Express, United Parcel Service, and the United States Postal Snails all offer this option for a nominal fee. The seller ships the item COD to the buyer, who pays the courier on arrival. The courier then forwards the payment to the seller. The extra few bucks are worth the security of having the courier act as the intermediate: the buyer won't get the package until he pays, and vice-versa. One suggestion to the buyer--when the package arrives, pay by check or cashier's check so you can stop payment if necessary. I know of no examples, but the shipper could theoretically send you a very expensive brick instead of the hard drive you ordered. With UPS and US Mail, you can not inspect the contents before paying for the COD. Method 2: Payment by check -- Good for small items The buyer sends a check, cashier's check, or money order to the seller, who then sends the item when the check arrives. With large items, the seller may wait a short time to make sure the check clears. Do NOT send cash. A cancelled check makes a good proof-of-payment if the seller doesn't deliver. Method 3: Escrow -- Good for expensive items For extra protection in the case of more expensive items, escrow is another possibility. Your lawyer can do it, or you can use a commercial service as an intermediary. The intermediary waits until it receives both item and payment, then it sends the item to the buyer. After the buyer has had a short trial period (typically 2 days) to make sure the item is as-described, the intermediary forwards the payment to seller. The following commercial enterprises offer this service on a routine basis: American Computer Exchange, 800-786-0717 5-8% commission, min. $50 Boston Computer Exchange, 800-262-6399 Flat fee Computer Classified Exchange Service, 216-481-2563 5% commission, min. $5 Note: this is an endorsement of the IDEA ONLY, no implication is made as to the integrity of any company at this time. I am interested in knowing of any m.fs transactions which take place with these companies. Method 4: Pay by credit card. This option is only available when dealing with commercial vendors, although some of the escrow companies above may allow payment by credit card as well. This is the safest means, as you can appeal to the credit card company if the other party defaults. When problems do occur, the primary cause is miscommunication. Over the last few years, incidents of fraud have been limited to roughly 1 every few months. When you consider that roughly 200 ads are posted every day, it should be obvious that true fraud is almost negligible. Much more significant is miscommunication--you think you're buying X, while the seller is selling Y. This has a very simple solution: ASK QUESTIONS! Most sellers on Usenet are more than capable of answering every question you could ask--technical or otherwise. If they won't answer your questions, it's a sure sign of trouble. It will help both buyer and seller if each makes certain the other is absolutely clear on the terms of sale and the condition of the item. To help take care of this, and to protect yourself in the very unlikely event of fraud, be sure to take the following precautions: Keep records of your e-mail, checks, proof-of-mailing. Insure packages adequately. Make sure both of you are ABSOLUTELY clear on the items and arrangements. Exchange and double-check addresses and phone numbers. If the items are terribly expensive, you may wish to have a notarized bill of sale drawn up and/or other legal formalities. Contact your lawyer for more information. One caution if you're buying used software--the laws regarding licensing are very strange. Can someone enlighten me? If something does go wrong, the best place to start is to contact the other party--via e-mail or telephone. Again, the #1 source of problems is miscommunication. If this doesn't work, however, contact the other person's system administrator by e-mailing 'postmaster@[systemname]'. Often times the threat of losing net access is enough to help the process along--but please do this ONLY when discussions fall through. DISCLAIMER: While rare, occasionally fraud does occur on the Internet. It is ultimately the buyer and/or seller who must take precautions to ensure that he/she is not taken for a ride. Presented here are merely suggestions of means of transaction which worked for others. There is no guarantee that they will work for you. ------------------------------ ~Subject: 9. Other sources of classified ads via the Internet. In addition to the misc.forsale groups, several additional services are available via major computer networks. If you want to post goods for sale, many of these (often free) services welcome your wares. In any case, please learn the rules of using these services before posting your ad. Most sites have help files available. via the World Wide Web-- the IMall at Brigham Young University <<http://www.imall.com/homepage.html>> Free for browsers and advertisers Commercial posts welcome Phil Windley, windley@leopard.cs.byu.edu the EPages <<http://ep.com/>> Free for browsers (and advertisers?) No info on Commercial posts epage@epage.com The Exchange in eastern Washington State <<http://www.iea.com/~adlinkex>> Free for browsers (Weekly Newspaper ads) Commercial posts welcome, for a fee adlinkex@comtch.iea.com via Goper-- The Exchange in eastern Washington State gopher.iea.com Exchange.Publishing via anonymous FTP-- The Exchange in eastern Washington State ftp.iea.com /public/adlinkex If you would like your service, commercial or not, mentioned here, send e-mail to dank@metrics.com with information about the service and how to connect. Also please include a contact name and Internet e-mail address. ------------------------------ ~Subject: 10. Additional international considerations. One thing to keep in mind is that the Usenet Marketplace is global. Many transactions occur across country boundaries, often with no difficulty. However, you need to take a few additional considerations into account before conducting business with other countries. For one thing, COD is generally not allowed for international shipments. Along the same lines, some carriers may charge the buyer additional fees before he can pick up the package. These may involve import taxes, or just the arrangement with the seller's shipper. Make certain you know how your country's courier/postal services handle such shipments. Another, extremely important consideration involves technology. It is illegal to send many kinds of advanced equipment from the United States to certain countries, and likewise across other international borders. Advanced equipment does not just mean nuclear warheads, but can be as simple as software or IBM PC's. You'll need to talk to an international shipper for more information. Finally, we strongly suggest you talk to an international shipper before you take on the bear of dealing across borders. Your friendly neighborhood mailing/packaging shop should be able to steer you in the right direction--and keep you out of jail. ------------------------------ ~Subject: 11. Glossary of terms. Given that a large number of Usenet Marketplace readers are on the net for the first time, here is a short list of terms commonly seen in the misc.forsale.* and biz.marketplace.* groups-- COD -- Cash On Delivery, a service where the shipping company collects money for a parcel from the recipient. DOA,WOA -- Dead/Working On Arrival, used to express warranties EIDE -- Enhanced IDE, the successor to the IDE hard drive interface, allowing for CD-ROM drives and >500MB hard drives. ESDI -- An older high-performance hard drive interface for PCs. FAQ -- Frequently Asked Questions (or, in computer parlance, an article which answers many...); This article. FD -- Floppy Drive (for 3.5", 5.25" or 8.?" disks) FS -- For Sale HD -- Hard Drive (The computer permanent storage component) Note that physical capacity and usable capacity may be different for a given drive. IDE -- Integrated Drive Electronics; the standard hard drive interface for PCs sold today. IMHO -- Net parlance for "In my humble opinion..." MB -- Motherboard; the backbone of most computers on which the CPU and other support resides. xxxMB -- Megabyte, a unit of memory/storage as in a 500MB hard drive. In common parlance, 1MB = 1000 kilobytes. meg -- Abbreviation for 'megabytes', the unit of memory/storage. MFM -- Modified Frequency Modulation; a physical method of storing data on a hard drive. Also, the original IBM PC standard for hard drive interfaces--not very compatible with more recent systems. OBO -- Or Best Offer (e.g., the price is negotiable) RAM -- Random Access Memory; The main operating memory for most computers. RLL -- Run Length Limited; an alternate form of MFM. SCSI -- Small Computer Systems Interface (for hard drives/ CD-ROM drives, floppy drives, ...) SIMM -- Single In-line Memory Module; one type of RAM which comes in 72 and 30 pin varieties for different computers. The standard for most computers manufactured in the last several years. SIPP -- Single In-line Pinned Package; a type of RAM which comes in 30 pin varieties. It can be converted to SIMM with the appropriate adapters. WTB -- Wanted To Buy ;-) -- The Universal Internet Smiley; used to indicate a joke, sarcasm, or any instance where you don't really mean it.